Gender Parity is a Culture Problem — Here’s How to Address it Like One
by Jonas Prising, CEO, ManpowerGroup, interviewing Margie Wang, Chief Operating Officer and CFO, JA Worldwide
Perspectives from a male CEO and female COO on what’s needed to build a #BalanceForBetter this International Women’s Day
Gender parity is high on ManpowerGroup’s agenda and has been since the days of our founding. This is why I am so pleased to sit down with Margie Wang, Chief Operating Officer and CFO of JA Worldwide, to discuss her career path and unique perspective on how to accelerate more women into leadership. Since I first joined the JA USA board in 2010, and then the JA Worldwide board shortly after, Margie and I have enjoyed working together.
Jonas Prising: Hi, Margie. I’m excited about the opportunity to discuss gender parity in honor of International Women’s Day 2019.
Margie Wang: Thank you, Jonas. We’ve had the good fortune of working together for a number of years, and it’s a great pleasure to chat with you and discuss gender parity as we celebrate this International Women’s Day. Pushing for gender parity is something I’ve been passionate about for a long time — my whole career, actually. And when I reached the C-suite, I certainly didn’t consider it a one and done.
Jonas: As you know, we share your passion for gender parity at ManpowerGroup, and I’m glad we’re not beginning by talking about why we need to get more women into leadership roles. The case has been made; the data speaks for itself: Businesses with more diverse leaders perform better. Creating parity of opportunity for women isn’t just the right thing to do; it makes business sense. And at a time when more girls are leaving education with degrees and outnumbering male university graduates in most parts of the world, the time for change really is now. In our own 7 Steps to Conscious Inclusion report, we provide practical steps to help companies shift the needle. One of the key steps is ensuring women are in P&L roles. As a COO and CFO, tell us more about your background and career journey.
Margie: My journey started after graduation from Cornell University with a B.A. in math and computer science, when I joined Exxon Corporation as a systems analyst. At that time, as you can imagine, I was entering an industry dominated by male engineers, and a female Asian was a bit of an oddity. Despite the optics, I acclimated to the culture of a no-nonsense meritocracy, where performance was considered paramount and outweighed any other measure. I was fortunate to have many male mentors (and one or two female ones) who recognized me for my contributions and encouraged me to pursue an MBA.
Exxon was the best training ground in finance that I could have ever imagined: analytical and fact driven. Looking back, I think I conformed to the culture at Exxon and was rewarded, probably leaving some of my personal identity and emotional intelligence at the door. At its core, gender parity really is a culture problem and needs to be addressed like one.
Jonas: I couldn’t agree more: It’s a leadership issue, and change needs to start at the top. Our research shows that male-entrenched culture is the biggest barrier to progress for women, and male leaders recognize this. As leaders, we need to take a hard look at the culture we’re creating for our people and whether it’s aligned to produce the results we want. It’s on us as leaders to step up and own this — it’s not the sort of thing that can be delegated to HR. At ManpowerGroup, we focus on creating a culture of “conscious inclusion,” where everyone is welcomed and all opinions are valued. I ensure my leaders know that our diversity strategy is as important as any other business strategy and that it’s up to leadership to demonstrate that inclusion is a priority. The solve for more women in leadership is really simple: hire more, promote more, lose less. This is why it’s so critical for male leaders to step up and champion this issue.
Margie: It’s great to hear you say that, and I’m grateful to see ManpowerGroup leading in this space. So how do we accelerate progress? It’s not because of a lack of females in the talent pool. Colleges today graduate more women (56%) than men. Even in finance, the number of qualified women has grown steadily.
What can we do about unconscious bias in hiring and promoting? I’m thinking about how several U.S. orchestras now hold blind auditions after discovering unconscious bias toward men in the audition process. What are your ideas for overcoming unconscious bias when hiring and promoting women?
Jonas: Everyone has bias — it’s human nature. The first step to overcoming our biases is to acknowledge that we have them. Challenging our own assumptions means being aware of our biases and course-correcting for them. Male leaders, especially, need to address this. Women are often less vocal or confident about their abilities to take the next step up, and if you’re looking at that through a traditional lens, you may think she’s not interested in taking that next step. But you’d be wrong. So instead of saying things like, “she doesn’t have the experience,” we need to ask instead, “what do we need to make it work?” and only then can we see ways around these cultural stumbling blocks.
Margie: I completely agree. I love this concept of “conscious inclusion,” too. To me, that means that we are self-aware and purposefully look for parity, not only because it’s the right thing to do, but because we’ll get better results.
Jonas: Exactly. Actions speak louder than words. Organizations can start with the visibility of senior women in the organization. At ManpowerGroup, we have one of the most diverse boards, with 42% female board members who are visible to our business. Just recently, one of our female board members, Cari Dominguez, presented at a Business Resource Group event, and a few months ago, four of our female executive leaders hosted our top 50 global women leaders, sharing insights and examples of their career paths and obstacles they’ve overcome along the way. Doing as you are doing and showcasing real role models is important to help women see their path to progress.
Margie: I think that’s especially important for young people and those who are early on in their careers. My daughter is an ophthalmologist in her second year of residency training and newly married, and I see firsthand that a key barrier for women today is managing the demands of a high-energy career and a family. This was true 30 years ago, but we haven’t made enough progress supporting women throughout their careers and ensuring they aren’t overlooked for opportunities and left behind with respect to salary and promotions. When I went on maternity leave, it was considered a “disability;” now, it’s not a disability, but too often is frowned upon due to the inconvenience of backfilling during the absence. The pipeline is full of qualified and ambitious young women, as evidenced by the percentage of females enrolled in college, but along the way, they drop out or get passed over. What a loss of leadership talent and role models for girls!
Jonas: That’s why workplaces that enable people to balance work and home — as well as role models who do that visibly — are so important. You can’t be what you can’t see. We need authentic leaders who “live out loud,” as my colleague, head of our North America business and member of the JA USA Board of Directors, Becky Frankiewicz, likes to say. Being a great parent and a great employee/leader are not mutually exclusive; in fact, they are mutually beneficial. Living out loud means making career choices that work for you, your life, your family. Maybe this means flexible working options, a lateral career move, leaving early to be at your child’s hockey game. No matter what the choice, as CEO, it’s on me to foster a culture where you feel empowered to make it. Building a culture that values performance benefits everyone.
And we know that younger generations are hungry for this. Both men and women want to work in ways that help them blend work and home and take time off for vacations or to care for family members. They want to make fast progress on gender parity, too. The World Economic Forum forecasts that it’ll take 108 years to close the gender gap, but when we surveyed millennials, we learned they have much higher — and faster — expectations. They believe theirs will be the generation to balance the scales, and I agree.
Margie: The first step in change is to believe that change is possible. Millennials believe gender parity will happen faster, so Gen Z, the youngest generation, will drive the solution, and individuals will bring all their talents to the workplace regardless of gender, race, religion, disability, and so on. At JA Worldwide, we see this in full view. At the last JA Asia Pacific Company of the Year competition — which brings together young entrepreneurs to compete for the best business startup — every member of the first-, second-, and third-place teams were female! And, not long ago, before the civil war in Yemen, we had an all-female Yemeni team take first place in the JA MENA (Middle East and North Africa) competition.
We need more role models for young girls, and I’m optimistic that the next generation will not only be those role models, but also demand — and expect — gender parity.
Jonas: I’m optimistic, too. It’s great to hear about the strides JA is making and see the effects play out. Strong leadership like yours is key, too. You’re a role model for the 10 million students JA reaches each year. What last piece of advice can you give to girls and women in terms of having a successful career?
Margie: I am by no means a sage, but the first thing I would say to girls and women is don’t let others tell you what you can and can’t do, simply because you’re female. Identify what is important to you, set goals, and pursue them with all your heart and mind. Recognize there will be obstacles, but don’t let those barriers in the road detour you from your ultimate destination. Be humble; be disciplined. Things that are worthwhile take time and effort to achieve. At JA Worldwide, we believe in the limitless possibility of young people and in equipping them with the skills and attitudes to contribute to — and succeed in — a global economy. This includes the talents of both women and men.
And going back to your research, I, too, believe that men need to be part of the solution. That’s why I’m so glad to have had the opportunity for this dialogue with you, and to see that ManpowerGroup, with a male CEO, is championing gender diversity at work.
Jonas: Thanks Margie. It has been great to hear more about your story, and we are proud as ever to support the fantastic work JA is doing to upskill the next generation and help them achieve their full potential. Happy International Women’s Day!
